staff training for three sectional staff...

[myrddin]

Just made my order....

Qty Name SKU
1 Wax Wood Straight Staff W204-1
1 Three-Section Foam Staff W053
1 Traditional Three Section Staff W050-T
1 Traditional Black Cotton Sash U008XL

Now can anyone recomend a routine to help me get adapted to the staff and three sectional?

After some time I will order the 7 or 8 foot taperd wax wood to add to my colection...

any advice would be great...

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Take a look at the basic strikes in the fundamentals of the WLKE Monkey King Staff video and do those. Start slow for form, then speed it up to the point where you start to hear the strikes; then start working on your daily rep count.

Store your staff laid flat on a flat surface if possible, if not in a proper rack. Do not store staff leaned up against a wall because it will warp.

Key element: whenever possible let your stance transition do the work.

By the way, as far as I know 3 sectional staff is not Hung Gar, right?

Good Luck, and YOU WON'T CATCH OLD SAL playing with 3 sectional staff, got enough things to bite me already ...

Sal

[FrankyLau]

I do not really understand what you mean when you say "thrust upwards".

S. Feng

yes its hard to explain in words..specaially for me as english isnt my first language..check out the movement at 2.26 in this clip please
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRfUUkW9jJA
try this with a pole twice ur height.... well there gotta be some serious hand sliding to do that..anyway later today i will record something with a 12 ft pole and post it...

greetings

[Uchi_deshi]

i dont see what your talking about...i dont know what you mean eather....

what thrust are you talking about?

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Ah hah! We do that jump spin into a kneeling stance (on one knee), then a full extension thrust upwards (lead hand slides back to rear hand) *on an angle* like in our Monkey King Staff. I can do that spin and thrust with my 10' staff but the extra 2' on a 12' staff could be a real downer.

At least you are starting out at the end of the staff and don't have to adjust hands from a grip in the middle! I find myself scurrying to hand slide with more difficulty at several other places in the form.

Let me know how easy it is to do the movement at your 3.28/3.29 with a 12' pole. I bet that is even tougher.

Thank-you ever so much for making the tape. It is very interesting to compare it to the version Wing Lam does, which is shown in part, using a shorter rat-tail staff so it will fit within the frame of the video, at http://www.wle.com//products/vhg21.html



Sal

[FrankyLau]

Hi Sal,
actually our 8 diagram pole form is quite different than the one in the clip I posted..but this upward movement in the clip comes ours very near..
I agree practising with a heavier and longer pole gives u certainly some benefits but still i cant see playing ng long with a pole twice ur height..
then better playing a form designed for such a long pole..
our 12 ft poles were done by a carpenter,they are pretty heavy ,made of hardwood ..i have some other poles like 7,2 ft also made of hardwood they are not tapered and just run straight also very heavy..those i use for practsing ng long..they are so heavy when i play the form it will look slow..for demos however we use a lighter and also tapered 7.2 ft pole..

the movement at 3.28 is probably impossible to do with a 12 ft pole..u lean forward with ur arms extended,holding the pole with both hands at its end..whoever can do that is "STRONG" haha

[Uchi_deshi]

well thats what they say to be used for the pole...

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Let's look at 3.28 logically. If pole height = 2* your height, and your head is 1' tall, assuming you are 6' tall the fulcrum for a vertical circle with your arms straining upwards is at about 5' off the ground. Let's say on 3.28 you shift your hands to shoulder width at the center of the pole. That means each end of the staff is 12'/2 = 6' of length from the fulcrum. That puts the last 1' of the staff UNDER GROUND when you do the vertical circle.

Is this a deal killer? NO WAY!!!! All you have to do is raise the fulcrum up 1' from the ground -- easily accomplished by leaping 1' in the air, right? Er, maybe not so easy. How about raising your arms as much as possible AND leaping AND instead of doing a perfect vertical circle with the 12' staff, angling the circle.

Meanwhile, maybe I am lucky I couldn't get a 12' staff.



SAL

[FrankyLau]

to keep it simple Im sure the ng long form wasnt choreographed to be played with a 12 ft pole...u also dont play table tennis with a bowling ball haha..

[Uchi_deshi]

its not the point...they say that is what the height should be...i was going over what is in the book. it does not say much about it for what were talking about.it does talk about its used for thrust....if really need to find out why and other qestions about it to be answered we need to go to a real sourse....

maybe Tom or HaSayFu can help us with the answers or better understanding for it...

i dont think the 3 of use can get the right anwer to point us to the right direction

[FrankyLau]

actually I dont think there is "one" right answer..

every answer or opinion given here has its values and also Tom or Ha Say Fu can only give their opinions.. neither theirs or ours are the blueprint..

I can actually agree its maybe possible to play the ng long form with a 12ft pole BUT I think you have to adjust so much that the actuall purpose of some movements gets lost or change ...

[Uchi_deshi]

well it does say something about short distance weapon as well,,, to where you would change to where your holding the weapon in the center...

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Just to be the devil's advocate, I believe that the actual purposes of some of the movements in the Wing Lam Fifth Son Eight Trigrams would be less necessary if one were to do the form using a 7' pole instead of something longer. I have in mind some of the blocks, which could be and perhaps should be done differently if you are using a shorter, more mobile staff.

My guess is that the origin of the set probably resulted in the length of the pole ... perhaps historically the poles were used for rafting (because if I were to pick a staff length for a weapon it would be far shorter than twice my height)? That's just a guess.


Sal

[Uchi_deshi]

in the book that form came from a spear military form... the founder of it took the spear head off.....

thats the reason for the name of the form is the founder

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Yes, but before the specific form the weapon may have existed and been lying around. I doubt they just decided at random to use a 12' pole for the first time just because a new monk had a spear form to convert UNLESS it was a 12' spear ....

Sal