Chinese Weapons vs. others

[shaolinboxer]

it all comes down to the individual, theres no superior style, only different and more 'advanced' indepth techniques, but no superiority

the same goes for weapons imho

amitabha

[Wong Fei Hung]

I think if you knew how to use it, the samurai would win. the japaneese always invaded china with the samurai swords and the chineese had no defense. that's why they created the doulbe handed broadsword.

[dpisaac]

Hello,
I would have to agree with Wong Fei Hung on this one. I realize that I have not reached deep enough into sword fighting yet but some were in the forum i put that I am currently fighting with a Kendoka. It is very fun neither of us have a tramindus amount of experence and for the most part I seem to be doing better than my opponient but the with the styles I am having to do alot more adaptation than he is. Which this maybe part of the growth period.

I don't know it just seems like if a person (samuri) devoted all their training into one weapon they would be superior in that weapon. Of course their is the side to which I like, that soundes even better to me. If a person(Shaolin) fought with different weapons they would have a wider range of techniques to pull from.

[Wong Fei Hung]

Shaolinboxer,

I don't beleive what you said entirely. there are superior weapons. sure they can all cut you and are basicaly the same, but let's take it to the extreme. if i had a broad sword, and you had a toothpick, who do you think would die first? you are right to some degree though. the style has to fit the indiviual.

[RHD]

I think if you knew how to use it, the samurai would win. the japaneese always invaded china with the samurai swords and the chineese had no defense. that's why they created the doulbe handed broadsword.

I'm no historian but my uinderstanding is that other than some occasional acts of piracy, Japan didn't invade China until they had a "modern" army with guns, artillery, and so forth. Most of the time the Japanses were too busy killing eachother to invade anywhere but Okinawa.

Sword technology was always designed for specific purposes within thier time period. On the battlefields of ancient China, the gim was a lot heavier and thicker...not the long, thin flexible "wudang" type sword that we see today. I'm willing to bet its use 300 years or more ago was much more like European swords of similar styling vs. heavily armored opponents. The "modern" versions of the dao and gim were most likely streamlined as the end result of guns making armor obsolete. No armor= faster. Faster=lighter weapons and probably more thrusting. Much like Europe went from heavy chop and thrust swords to rapiers and cavalry sabers. Just my two cents.

Mike

[Wong Fei Hung]

you're right. I should have made myself clearer. There were no real military strikes on China from Japan, but when they did hit, even just a little one, they massacered everyone. The villagers had experience with martial arts too, but they had never seen something like thisbefore. after the japaneese kept attacking because they always won, the chineese created a counrter weapon, just to stop those samurai swords. That's what I meant, not accual wars.

[kungfu-monk]

as to the toothpic vs broadsword statement i think the individual skills actually matter. lets say a ninjutsu master went up against a medium skilled broadsword player the ninja would hurl the toothpick into the opponent's throat and kill him before he got a strike in.

[dpisaac]

I don't know much about anything, but I thought Japan invaded China during a period in which opium was a problem. Thus the term "sick man of Asia". I don't think it was truly about the Chinese skill. Once again I will state Sun Lu Tang in saying that Only a nation full of strong individuals will be strong. I don't realy feel that they would have envaded China if it were at full power. The Chinese are strong as a nation and a people and I would argue there power equal to the Roman Empire. Just my opinion though. Correct me if I am missled on the topic.

[Wong Fei Hung]

as to the toothpic vs broadsword statement i think the individual skills actually matter.

In my last comment, the skill is equal. that is the only way to test the weapons capabilities. I assumed that people reading this message could figure out my point which is to prove that if any sane person had a choice, they would pick the broadsword. I was merely trying to present the fact that all weapons are not equal. It depends on how the weapon and style fits the individual. If there is a pearson who fights better with a toothpick than a sword, mail me!

[hasayfu]

you're right. I should have made myself clearer. There were no real military strikes on China from Japan, but when they did hit, even just a little one, they massacered everyone. The villagers had experience with martial arts too, but they had never seen something like thisbefore. after the japaneese kept attacking because they always won, the chineese created a counrter weapon, just to stop those samurai swords. That's what I meant, not accual wars.

Well there were actually two invasions by Japan on China pre guns. One in 1592 after they invaded and defeated Korea and again in 1597. Both attempts failed. I don't know that you can blame it on inferior weapons though.

Back to the skirmishes. Yes Japanese trained pirates invaded the villagers off the coast of Fujian and were very successful. If you believe the history, they were stopped by a contingent of Shaolin Monks using staves and Dan Dos.

What counter weapon are you thinking of?

[Wong Fei Hung]

the doulbe handed broadsword was developed to counter the samurai sword (if you read my earlier post).

[dpisaac]

So am I wrong?

[Pea Spot]

Dpissac, the Opium War, which ended in 1842, predated the Japanese invasion by about half a century. The Chinese lost this war to the British, who introduced opium to the country and greatly weakened the people. As a result China was forced to sign the Treaty of Nanjing, ceding Hong Kong to foreign rule.

I believe the Chinese tried to clean up the opium problem afterwards, but they were plagued by a host of other internal problems, including the Taiping Rebellion, so the Japanese invasion could not be blamed just on the opium.

[dpisaac]

Ok, sorry I was wrong I just wanted to know for some reason I thought that it happend abuot the same time. I didn't think that the Japanese were the cause of the opium I just misplaced my history. Once again I appoligize.

[RHD]

Dpissac, the Opium War, which ended in 1842, predated the Japanese invasion by about half a century. The Chinese lost this war to the British, who introduced opium to the country and greatly weakened the people. As a result China was forced to sign the Treaty of Nanjing, ceding Hong Kong to foreign rule.

I believe the Chinese tried to clean up the opium problem afterwards, but they were plagued by a host of other internal problems, including the Taiping Rebellion, so the Japanese invasion could not be blamed just on the opium.

Speaking of which there's a very interesting if not Eurocentric account of the Taiping Rebellion by author Caleb Carr called "The Devil Soldier".


Mike