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*sex* and Iron Palm

Talk about Tiger and Shaolin Iron Palm, Iron Body here!

Moderators: wlelum, mark, JamesC, Dale Dugas, hasayfu

Postby mark on Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:27 pm

TehBronco wrote:It's really hard to find iron shot, I don't even know if they make it anymore. I found some zinc plated steel shot at a reloading store and of course there's always the steel BB's which are copper plated. Do you see any problem with one of those as a filling for the bag or must they be pure and uncoated? Also do you really need them to rust, because I was thinking of using leather for the iron bag so I won't have to worry about the zinc or copper plating.


I bought mine feom a sporting good store. This was what was use for sling shots. I bought all they had and then had to order me more. When I went to a bigger bag (Tiger) I just added the rest from Sifu Lam. You can always get it from him.

Don't use Zinc, lead or cooper. You need steel or iron because you want the rust.
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Postby TehBronco on Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:48 pm

mark wrote:I bought mine feom a sporting good store. This was what was use for sling shots. I bought all they had and then had to order me more. When I went to a bigger bag (Tiger) I just added the rest from Sifu Lam. You can always get it from him.

Don't use Zinc, lead or cooper. You need steel or iron because you want the rust.


I don't want to buy the bag from WLE because it's way too expensive plus add to that the shipping which is also quite spicy at WLE for some reason...I'd rather make my own since it's so easy.
No zinc lead or copper, got it. It's hard to find uncoated steel shot but I'll try. Thanks again Mark.
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Postby NJM on Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:18 pm

TehBronco wrote:I'll probably go the rest of this month on the bean bag, do the second month on the rock then move on to iron.


Why do you feel that you must progress through the bags so quickly?
When the great man learns the Dao, he follows it with diligence;
When the common man learns the Dao, he follows it on occasion;
When the mean man learns the Dao, he laughs out loud;
Those who do not laugh, do not learn at all.
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Postby mark on Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:30 pm

NJM wrote:Why do you feel that you must progress through the bags so quickly?


Yes ... I am interested in that myself.
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Postby TehBronco on Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:14 pm

mark wrote:
NJM wrote:Why do you feel that you must progress through the bags so quickly?


Yes ... I am interested in that myself.


Well, I basically don't want to waste any time on something that's unnecessary. Why hit a mung bean bag for six months when I can hit it for one and move on up with no loss or complications?
And considering the fact that I know people who start straight on Iron and some don't even use jow...I talked to a Sifu who does that program and he cleared a lot of things up for me. It seems that the Wing Lam program is taking the long way round and that's just not for me. Why go from California to New York by way of England, or something along those lines. Makes sense to me.
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Postby NJM on Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:29 pm

TehBronco wrote:
mark wrote:
NJM wrote:Why do you feel that you must progress through the bags so quickly?


Yes ... I am interested in that myself.


Well, I basically don't want to waste any time on something that's unnecessary. Why hit a mung bean bag for six months when I can hit it for one and move on up with no loss or complications?
And considering the fact that I know people who start straight on Iron and some don't even use jow...I talked to a Sifu who does that program and he cleared a lot of things up for me. It seems that the Wing Lam program is taking the long way round and that's just not for me. Why go from California to New York by way of England, or something along those lines. Makes sense to me.


"Where can I learn this power?"

"Not... from a Jedi..."

It's not about who you know, it's about who they are. You can take the speedy path and will suffer the consequences. :wink:
When the great man learns the Dao, he follows it with diligence;
When the common man learns the Dao, he follows it on occasion;
When the mean man learns the Dao, he laughs out loud;
Those who do not laugh, do not learn at all.
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Postby TehBronco on Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:54 pm

NJM wrote:"Where can I learn this power?"

"Not... from a Jedi..."

It's not about who you know, it's about who they are. You can take the speedy path and will suffer the consequences. :wink:


I think you watch too much Star Wars :lol: How old are you by the way?
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Postby NJM on Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:31 pm

TehBronco wrote:
NJM wrote:"Where can I learn this power?"

"Not... from a Jedi..."

It's not about who you know, it's about who they are. You can take the speedy path and will suffer the consequences. :wink:


I think you watch too much Star Wars :lol: How old are you by the way?


You don't like Episode III references?
When the great man learns the Dao, he follows it with diligence;
When the common man learns the Dao, he follows it on occasion;
When the mean man learns the Dao, he laughs out loud;
Those who do not laugh, do not learn at all.
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Postby ogrelee on Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:55 pm

I'd like to know what the rush is, too. The true strength of the chinese method is in the slow build up of resistance and fluidity. By going slower, you'll have less subconsious hesitation when it is time to change.

You'll have less chance of hurting yourself.

Your forearms and shoulders will have more time to adapt to the repeated impact, becoming more solid and resistant, too.

You'll have more time to feel what effect hitting with subtle shifts in posture have, and what effect different materials have on your body, too.

Most importantly, without building the underlying physical body properly you may never have feasible power generation to warrant the iron palm in the first place. What good is the world's most powerful bullet without something to aim it with?

I'm experimenting with tumbled hematite (Iron sand, anyone?) in place of the iron shot. I'll fill you in on how well it works in a few months. :shock:
Whatever works- works.
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Postby TehBronco on Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:57 pm

I think Star Wars refferences belong to a certain age group and to a certain category of people.
I'm not saying anything :)
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Postby NJM on Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:03 pm

TehBronco wrote:I think Star Wars refferences belong to a certain age group and to a certain category of people.
I'm not saying anything :)


My sifu references Star Wars all the time :P

My neurons have probably linked the two implicitly. From now on I'll only make allusions to 300.

ogrelee wrote:I'd like to know what the rush is, too. The true strength of the chinese method is in the slow build up of resistance and fluidity. By going slower, you'll have less subconsious hesitation when it is time to change.

You'll have less chance of hurting yourself.

Your forearms and shoulders will have more time to adapt to the repeated impact, becoming more solid and resistant, too.

You'll have more time to feel what effect hitting with subtle shifts in posture have, and what effect different materials have on your body, too.

Most importantly, without building the underlying physical body properly you may never have feasible power generation to warrant the iron palm in the first place. What good is the world's most powerful bullet without something to aim it with?


Very nicely put.
When the great man learns the Dao, he follows it with diligence;
When the common man learns the Dao, he follows it on occasion;
When the mean man learns the Dao, he laughs out loud;
Those who do not laugh, do not learn at all.
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Postby TehBronco on Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:08 pm

ogrelee wrote:I'd like to know what the rush is, too. The true strength of the chinese method is in the slow build up of resistance and fluidity. By going slower, you'll have less subconsious hesitation when it is time to change.

You'll have less chance of hurting yourself.

Your forearms and shoulders will have more time to adapt to the repeated impact, becoming more solid and resistant, too.

You'll have more time to feel what effect hitting with subtle shifts in posture have, and what effect different materials have on your body, too.

Most importantly, without building the underlying physical body properly you may never have feasible power generation to warrant the iron palm in the first place. What good is the world's most powerful bullet without something to aim it with?

I'm experimenting with tumbled hematite (Iron sand, anyone?) in place of the iron shot. I'll fill you in on how well it works in a few months. :shock:


I'm not in a hurry but I don't like to waste time either. I agree with you the slow way may also be the safest, however that does not negate the fact that there are more direct methods out there that are just as safe. Why work seven years for something you can achieve in 3?
Wing Lam's program is good but it's not the only one out there. I tend to be more open minded.
Tumbled hematite? Where did you buy it from and what made you want to use it instead of good old iron/steel shot?
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Postby TehBronco on Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:12 pm

Star Wars?
This is Sparta!!! :evil:
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Postby NJM on Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:25 pm

TehBronco wrote:Tumbled hematite? Where did you buy it from and what made you want to use it instead of good old iron/steel shot?


I think it's for a different type of conditioning.
When the great man learns the Dao, he follows it with diligence;
When the common man learns the Dao, he follows it on occasion;
When the mean man learns the Dao, he laughs out loud;
Those who do not laugh, do not learn at all.
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Postby ogrelee on Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:16 am

Well, if you search a little further down the postings here, you'll find a post about using river rocks Vs Iron Shot. By river rocks we generally refer to medium sized, 1 or 2 inch, ovoid and smooth rocks. This type of material is the advanced level for some styles of IP. It is actually as challenging as the Shot, but more because of the shifting surface which presents an occasional edged surface. (These hurt when they land between knuckles, IMHO more than steel shot.) The argument is that a student is conditioned for striking surfaces with variable angles presenting, like the bony spots on a foe's body.

The drawback with stone vs shot would be that the shot develops a denser, harder hand with more peripheral conditioning, like I said, the wrist, elbows, shoulders, etc. So, theoretically, one is more applicable to developing a fighting hand, the other to developing a breaking hand. I don't really think one way is better than the other for developing IP, just that the strengths of each method are different. If you want to learn to hit with Iron Palm power, you have to take the time to study the strike itself. Otherwise, you're just making your hands harder, and you really don't need full on IP conditioning to do that. You could take up masonry or carpentry as a hobby, for instance. You'll have really hard, tough hands, but it won't do much for your fighting ability or striking power. This isn't meant to sound sarcastic, I'm just saying that IP without studying the strike and power generation is going to result in an empty skill, and you can get the effect without the skill.

My logic in the tumbled hematite is to combine the Iron with the rocks. This would be the shifting uneven surface melded with the Iron. Hematite is an iron oxide ore, known as iron sand in some places. What I propose is that using the larger pieces of smoothed out hematite (Which sheds an oxide dust,Ie rust) would combine the two methods. I'm thinking ovoid pieces would be best at about one inch diameter or less, but still larger than regular gravel. Just to be certain everyone here realizes this- I Never learned this from anyone, it's a personal experiment born from the evolution of almost thirty years of iron arts study. I also think that tumbled hematite is easier to find than Iron Shot, which is as rare as frog's hair these days.

I figure it may take a while to see what the training does, but when I have some definitive results, good or bad, I'll post them here. I only just got the stuff together for trying it out, so I have no idea what if any effect this medium will have on my hands.
Whatever works- works.
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