Beginner with a lot of questions...

[ninjamonk]

I started Hun Gar in December of 2007 and since there are no legitimate schools in my area, I only have the Wing Lam DVD and Book to go by until I get some money to go to OH or NY.

1st: Is it possible to enter the plataeu effect while training the Kiu Sau/Bridge Hand? I have been doing it a lot and I don't know if I am doing it wrong now or something else.

2nd: I believe I have also been over doing the back bending part of the warm ups in the first DVD, I took the "bend as much as you can" literally and, now my lower back is "stuck" in curved mode and it has become a little uncomfortable bending foward. How bad is this?

3rd: I live in an apartment building and I have no room for weapons training nor the room to store them. Is it ok, that for now I get the unarmed portions of the art and train weapons for when I find the school of choice? Or does everything have to be ABSOLUTELY in order?

4th: I noticed that on the first DVD, the lesson were taught in a very detailed and slower pace compared to the Lau Gar and Kung Gee Fook Fu sets. Will the remaining lessons be "fast paced" or will they return to the more slow and detailed pace like in the first DVD?

5th: Is there a DVD on the 12 principles of Hun Gar? I can't find it.

Thank you all that take the time to help a new student in need. I have more questions but I can't remember them right now. I will be posting a lot of them here.

[kristcaldwell]

i'm not a hung gar stylist, but i do believe i can answer most of you questions (with the exception to the question regarding the kiu sau and the like).

2nd: i would say this is very bad...lay off this exercise (atleast, for a while) and be careful to listen to your body from now on...never push it, and if you feel that you're pushing yourself too far - you probably are. stretching is something you should do gradually. flexibility, like most apects of kung-fu training, is something that is built up gradually over a period of time.

3rd: no, the order of routines is only a suggestion. not learning weapons will not hamper your practice of the empty hand routines (weapons practice only helps your empty hand practice - but a lack there of will not hurt your empty handed routines).

4th: unless it is an especially difficult technique or concept, the DVDs will contiue to be at the pace of lau gar and the like. don't worry, with a little practice, learning like this will be second nature. besides, a skill associatted with kung-fu is the ability to recognize movements at a fast speed (traditionally, routines were not slowed down to teach the student).

5th: beats me - but you may want to check into reading sifu lam's book on hung gar.

hope this helps!

[ninjamonk]

Thanks for the help. I have the book, I was just wondering if the 12 principles were going to be presented in a more visual detail. I am also relieved that I can postpone my weapon training for now. It would be depressing to have to completly halt my training. Thank you again, every little bit of help means a lot.

[Uchi_deshi]

far as the 12 hands. buck sam kong has a DVD that shows somethings about it... even if its not the samething, but it gives you an idea what your looking for... it helped me for more of an understanding.

the bridge hand you will find and see a picture of it. you said you have the Kung Gee Fook Fu. you see it in that form as well... look at the pic and see if you can find it in that form...if you look like them. then you know your doing it right

you said that there is no room for weapons where you live...you can put them on the wall to if there is no room... if you cant train with a weapon there. just look for a place where you can..

[ninjamonk]

Is the Buck Sam Kong DVD sold on this site? I have checked the movement in my Kiu Sau and it appears correct to me, I will just have to work on it some more. Their is some room on my wall for weapons, but training privately is the impossible part for I have no room to train and my friend's yard is occupied. The only other place would be the park and I do not want to have those "exotic" weapons in public. I think I would get arrested.

I have another question for Hun Gar users, do you have the Lau Gar Kuen(2nd) DVD? The part in the begining on how to form a Hun Gar or Sun Fist, it states that you have to fold your fingers into the balls of your hand and then close into a fist. I do this but when I form the fist, my fingers are tucked into the balls of my hand, and this certainly does not feel correct. Is it? When I see Wing Lam's hand, it looks like indentations in his hands where his fingers would go. If this is correct, what makes this fist different from the average balled up hand.

[Uchi_deshi]

they sell it on the site cant remember where at off hand...

thats my problem is finding a place to train with weapons but i do find a place. there is the YMCA you might try. being they do teach martial arts at many of them around the world. some kinda gym that be willing to let you do training for a fee... it just might take more time of thinking maybe something will come up...

the average fist your talking about has a very high rate of breaking the wrist or damaging the hand its self... its the reason why it needs to be tight fist like there telling you.

its one thing they should tell some one is why they do it. not just tell you how to do it.

[ninjamonk]

Exactly, it feels like I am just going through the movements sometime, without a deeper explaination.

A fist can be tight without tucking in the finger tips, so why must we tuck in? That is the part I really don't understand.

[Subitai]

I started Hun Gar in December of 2007 and since there are no legitimate schools in my area, I only have the Wing Lam DVD and Book to go by until I get some money to go to OH or NY.

1st: Is it possible to enter the plataeu effect while training the Kiu Sau/Bridge Hand? I have been doing it a lot and I don't know if I am doing it wrong now or something else.

"O" = Yes sort of...at the very least you're probably more conditioned and what you feel is that you DON'T feel the same kind of work out you got when you started. That's because you're more conditioned now.

-This is assuming of course that you are REALLY doing the exercise correctly and with discipline to concentrate only on where you need the energy. It would be so easy to show and explain to you these things in person. Rather than having to type so much.

- Assuming you were allot stronger and better...now would be the time to increase your GONG (Loosely= Skills) training. Some people use/put on Brass Rings or some other weights, some increase the reps or things like that.
2nd: I believe I have also been over doing the back bending part of the warm ups in the first DVD, I took the "bend as much as you can" literally and, now my lower back is "stuck" in curved mode and it has become a little uncomfortable bending foward. How bad is this?


"O" Just train evenly, Front of abdomen and back as well..increase your core overall.


3rd: I live in an apartment building and I have no room for weapons training nor the room to store them. Is it ok, that for now I get the unarmed portions of the art and train weapons for when I find the school of choice? Or does everything have to be ABSOLUTELY in order?

"O" Any kung fu is better than none. Don't focus on what you can't do...only what you can, then improve.


4th: I noticed that on the first DVD, the lesson were taught in a very detailed and slower pace compared to the Lau Gar and Kung Gee Fook Fu sets. Will the remaining lessons be "fast paced" or will they return to the more slow and detailed pace like in the first DVD?

"O" They are not FAST! Open your mind and learn quicker. In the old days...people didn't want to perform in public for fear of someone copying their moves and stealing kung fu.

As Instructors at Wing Lam...when Sifu taught us in the Latter years, he would do everythng in brief actions and only 3x's. He'd say, " if you cannot follow me at this speed and when it is repeated for you then perhaps you're not meant learn Kung Fu." Ok that is paraphrasing a big discussion, but that's the gist of it.

Anyway, when you know your lesson is brief you PAY ATTENTION and you grow sharper.
5th: Is there a DVD on the 12 principles of Hun Gar? I can't find it.


"O" That is not important for you right now. This is:
Good Footwork,
Connect the body through the waist.
Get the proper speed and link the power to the ends of your bridges

Find or travel to a good teacher to give you some proper basics. That's a better start.

Oh and good luck...

"O"


Thank you all that take the time to help a new student in need. I have more questions but I can't remember them right now. I will be posting a lot of them here.

[ninjamonk]

I was doing my Kiu Sau today and the burn came back so I feel better about that. I usually do 10 to 15 like Wing Lam's book states very few times I go to 20, I notice now, that I sometimes overdo things.

In your comment on the 4th question, it states "when Sifu taught us in the Latter years, he would do everythng in brief actions and only 3x's." Doesn't 'Latter years' refer to the more experienced student, I am still new to Hun Gar.

Thank you overall. What is your opinion on the Sun Fist, from my earlier post.

[Salamander Feng at Home]

In the bad old bare-knuckle days our instructor (a 10th degree Black Belt Grandmaster of Isshinryu Karate who knows lots of other arts) would hang out in his office until folks had a good hard workout, then come out and show a lengthy piece of a form to the entire class JUST ONCE. Then he would go back in his office and shut the door. Do or die, everyone cooperated in making sure they got it down. And folks took written notes so they would not forget (I recommend the clock system -- you start facing 12:00 in a ready stance with your hands at your sides, eyes forward ....). It was very efficient of his time, the most valuable commodity in the school.

Now, 25 or 30 years later, he will show a student a short, standard sequence of a form pretty much 3 times and that's it, leave him to practice it for twenty minutes. When an instructor reviews the student's form, our marching orders are to watch a student's form from start to whatever comes first, the end or the first error, and fix just the first mistake. If it is perfect and a week later, we show the next sequence. One sequence per week if no mistakes. I teach kids generally so if something is just sloppy, I will clean it up and not treat it as a full error if they otherwise have the structure (don't want to discourage them from attending classes -- we just hold back the promotions until they know the stuff). At most we show someone a sequence about five or six times, preferably with them doing it with the instructor by the end, because we have to share our time with the other students in the class. I try to go back at the end of class and take a look. This holds true whether I am teaching a beginner or a Black Belt.

What's the reason for my boss's change of style? 30 years ago all he cared about was creating street monsters and national champions, so it was a small dedicated crew. Today he wants to help as many folks as possible, which means he no longer is indifferent to discouraging the majority of them.

However, in my experience everyone learns at a different pace. Some of our more dedicated Black Belts will interrupt me and say "that's it, no more" when I am showing them a weapons form at a point prior to the natural length of the sequence. As rude as it is, I recall doing this once with my boss, too (and he looked at me like I was dumb but cut the lesson off there). These martial artists do not mind progressing slowly, just want to get it right.

There is no reason why you have to swallow the entire taped lesson at one sitting. You can learn just a half of it or a third, and take up the rest in a few days or a week. I will repeat watching the same sequence dozens of times, practice it, and go back to the tape often so in that sense it is better than being in a class except no one gives you feedback. (I used the taped series to fill out the rest of my Hung Gar forms ... stuff I did not learn in a school .... and to conform them all to one style). Also, you can make frequent use of slow motion tape play, something I found necessary in certain places. Admittedly throughout the 39 tapes of Hung Gar there are a few places where you just cannot see what is happening (in some of those a different form has the same move so you can figure it out from a better angle shot, in some not), but there is no reason why you should let yourself feel overwhelmed by a tape THAT YOU CONTROL!

The basic Hung Gar fist is pretty standard for most styles of Kung Fu, Tae Kwan Do and Karate, so if you are still having problems, you don't need a Hung Gar practitioner to get it down right, just a competent martial artist (and probably a bag, preferably soft to start, then hard -- and bag gloves...)

Before you take weapons to a public place, better check the local laws. And do not rip the bark off public trees with your tiger claw practice, it ain't your tree so that's vandalism. A staff will probably be ok but a bladed weapon is pretty much an invitation to trouble.

And remember -- martial arts are more mental than physical.

Good luck in your training.



S. Feng

[Uchi_deshi]

i have not seen you on here in awhile sal...

i forgot to say pay attention alot on the small details after you have learned the entire form or if your doing it in parts... those details will make a big difference on how you look...

after i complete the whol form a few times or so... ill go back and break it down. take it apart in different areas. doing this will help understaning but fixing the form as well as improving the form...

[Salamander Feng at Home]

Hi, Uchi. Work has been rather intensive lately but I have been checking the boards every few weeks and whenever there is a line on which I can contribute meaninfully I chime in for whatever it is worth (or not). I don't want to step on any toes or insult anyone.

Hope all is well with you.


Sal

P.S. -- To the person who started this quest line, I would like to strongly agree with what O previously indicated, that you should make every effort to get your foundation in Hung Gar person to person. Once you get the fundamentals down you are in the best position to benefit from the tapes and unlikely to hit a major road block in your open handed training until the internal energy training in Five Animals. Lacking that you are experiencing a host of issues uncommon to most tape users, who have some martial arts experience in Hung Gar or other arts already. If you have $bucks,$ consider making an appointment for private lessons out of town. My Doctor is a Shorin Ryu Master and he has an out-of-town student who visits him twice a month.

[ninjamonk]

P.S. -- To the person who started this quest line, I would like to strongly agree with what O previously indicated, that you should make every effort to get your foundation in Hung Gar person to person. Once you get the fundamentals down you are in the best position to benefit from the tapes and unlikely to hit a major road block in your open handed training until the internal energy training in Five Animals. Lacking that you are experiencing a host of issues uncommon to most tape users, who have some martial arts experience in Hung Gar or other arts already. If you have $bucks,$ consider making an appointment for private lessons out of town. My Doctor is a Shorin Ryu Master and he has an out-of-town student who visits him twice a month.

My only friend that does an art is studying a different art and I am a bit strict/paranoid on whom my teacher is.

Legitimacy is of highest priority. I do not want a teacher that has taken a 6 week black belt course and calls it MA. I used to take Tae Kwon Do for about 2 1/2 years and I when I found out about traditional arts and when I saw REAL Korean TKD, I am sure you could imagine the frustraion levels going on there. Feels like you've wasted your life.

On the subject of private tutoring, How much does it go for on average? I don't have a lot of money, the DVDs and book is all I have to go on now.

[Uchi_deshi]

it can get up there in cost, but being you did TKD it give some base foundition... from what i hear korean TKD is nothing like it is here in the states... being the Rock Marines us it in there training....

to me any one going through a 6 week program is real but i dont think they make a person into a blk belt...

[ninjamonk]

it can get up there in cost, but being you did TKD it give some base foundition... from what i hear korean TKD is nothing like it is here in the states... being the Rock Marines us it in there training....

to me any one going through a 6 week program is real but i dont think they make a person into a blk belt...

I was exagerating(can't spell it) on the 6 week thing. I just meant someone whom was in a rush to get that degree and open up a school for a quick buck.